Stepping Out of Your Cultural Comfort Zone

[Danyelle] Hello everybody. Welcome to Comets Discuss, part of the UT Dallas Comet Cast network, where we provide discussions on big, trending topics. For this series we’re talking about prejudice. While a lot has been happening recently in regards to prejudice, racism and police brutality, this is not a short-term issue. So we’re talking with UT Dallas experts, while practicing social distancing, to provide you with various perspectives on this topic. I’m Danyelle. Today we’re talking to Arthur Gregg about the importance of stepping out of our cultural comfort zone. Arthur is the assistant vice president for multicultural affairs and the founding director for the Multicultural Center at UT Dallas. He helps oversee campus-wide diversity and cultural competency programs and advises various organizations on campus, among many, many other things in the UTD community. Thank you so much for joining us today, Arthur.

[Arthur] Well thanks for having me. I am really excited. I’ve been waiting on this. It’s my turn.

[Danyelle] Yes, yes, we love it. First off, can you tell us a little bit about what the Multicultural Center provides to the UT Dallas student body?

[Arthur] Yeah, that’s a great question. We get that a lot and I think the reason why we get that a lot is because it’s Multicultural Center and so people say well, Multicultural Center, what is that? First of all in the Multicultural Center — let’s go pre-COVID. It’s a space, it’s an experience, it’s a place — a place where people can come and just chill. I like to say you can just come and be. We provide services though, through the center itself. We have three areas that we primarily focus on, one being cultural events and programs — we kind of call it more so edutainment. The second area that I like to talk about is our diversity education. Diversity education is an area that we have created which does a lot of the training and just diversity education and knowledge for students. So for example we host what’s called our “Diversity Dialogues” and it’s around food and dialogues around diversity and different types of diversity, not just race and ethnicity. We talk about religion, we talk about socioeconomics, we talk about gender, we talk about our new hot topic, which is multi-generational things. We also provide a diversity one-on-one program which is facilitated in our first year experience classes. Also through that area we do some diversity workshops. So diversity ed workshops, like “Understanding Islam,” “Cross-Cultural Communication.” And then finally we have our student success and outreach area, which is more towards what we used to call retention and then we realized that retention is everybody and so we call it now, we look at student success. And then outreach — how do we reach out to our students? We look at leadership development. We like to kind of target though our underrepresented minority students in that area in particular our domestic students and so you may hear me refer to URM students, which again is underrepresented minority students. So a lot of these were large programs that were done on campus pre-COVID and so now since we are in this COVID pandemic we have moved all of that online and we’re really excited that we’re still able to offer some of those programs online, virtually with our staff and our of course big big big event, which is our Welcome Back Block Party, which is the night before school starts.

[Danyelle] So how is the Multicultural Center trying to work to engage dialogue and effect change within the UTD community? So you’ve mentioned the programs and all of that you’ve done, but what are some of the outcomes of the programming that the MC provides been?

[Arthur] In part of the thing is just a space where people can come and just connect up. For example we have a TV lounge. Any given day, I mean there we got movies in there but it’s just some of the shows that, that are on TV which will generate conversation. A place where students can just ask questions or maybe have conversations around something that happened on a TV show. A lot of our programming, we’re really encouraging students to have conversation during our programming. We have incorporated things like different types of like Kahoot! games or different types of games that would cause students to work together in teams or to just organically come together around the subject and have conversation. I really like our Diversity Dialogues because they typically bring students, faculty and staff and some community members together to just sit around and just have, twofold — one, to have the conversation and two, to hear the conversation. And it’s one thing to have a conversation and everybody’s talking. It’s another thing to have a conversation or hear a conversation and then you’re actively listening. From that we have engaged in everything, in getting students engaged. We’ve hired a lot of our students who work in our office from some of our programs who have come to the programs and who’ve learned more and wanted to know more and wanted to then work with and to teach other students and work with other students and more. So some of the outcomes has been employment, has been exposing students to different types of organizations who they didn’t even know were there. And then services — that’s another opportunity. Things like the Counseling Center, the Student Counseling Center and areas like that are commonly not talked about in some communities and so we’ve had great success of students working with each other to say, hey, I was at a program the other day that the Multicultural Center did with the Counseling Center and it was really cool. I didn’t know they had counselors who look like us or counselors who were cool or, you know, we thought the Counseling Center was just this dark place upstairs but it’s a cool place. And so it’s just many different ways that we’ve been able to connect students with us, with each other and with services on campus.

[Danyelle] That is so beautiful and so exciting. I’m a UTD alum and I was never involved the Multicultural Center because I was a commuter student, but I feel like I missed out.

[Arthur] And we feel like we missed out on you because commuter students, we love to have more commuter students that are part of the programming that we do! You know, because, again, it connects you to your UTD family. So we missed out on you, too.

[Danyelle] Why is working at the Multicultural Center important for you personally?

[Arthur] You know, I thought about that question and, and it, I think it kind of goes back to I was destined to be there or destined to be in this type of position. I was born in the early 60s. I don’t mind telling my age. You know, people get into this age thing, I mean I’m, you know, I’m fabulous uh and I don’t mind telling my age. But I was born to parents who were very active in a civil rights movement and very active in community engagement and so that’s how I was raised. I mean I learned to know more about other people, to engage in other things, and I also was a part of the first set of integration and forced busing in Austin and so I was able to integrate my elementary school and that was a somewhat of a traumatic experience, but it was a great learning experience at a young age and learning that there are people outside of my world and that they’re learning, learning that there are people who are inside of my world who are just as valuable as well. And so when I think about the Multicultural Center and what we try to create, I just think about how I was raised. And, and being the founding director, you know, I am, was the one who worked with some other staff members — our dean of students at that time and vice president — to create the Multicultural Center and so it’s just kind of like my baby. It’s kind of like a place where I could have used a, a Multicultural Center when I was in college. Although we had cultural areas and cultural departments, we didn’t have a center. There were people on my campus who looked like me, who cared that I was successful, who cared about what I looked like when I went to class or how I spoke when I was in class, that I always said, wow, if I, if I ever have a chance I want to be like that person. I want to be able to help students who are like me on our campus and so I don’t call it work. It’s passion. You know, when people say what would you do if you would do for free? If you could do it for free it would be working at the Multicultural Center. It would be hanging out with the students. It would be the programming we do and it would surely be working with the team that we put together in the Multicultural Center. Now, I would probably have to borrow food from them but I would do it for free.

[Danyelle] I love that you’re able to pay forward some of the mentorship that you got when you were in college. I think that that is so cool that you are creating the space like you wish you had.

[Arthur] One of my mentors said this a long time ago– you know how people say things and they don’t connect at the moment? And you’re kind of like, ah, okay, yeah yeah that’s deep and I don’t know what he just said. But he said sometimes you have to give what you never had and it never connected until I really started working at the Multicultural Center and start, we started creating and building that center and the programs that I’m like, this is what I wish I would have had. Or this probably would have helped me have done that so let’s try this and so that’s kind of my thought process.

[Danyelle] That’s so cool. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing your personal experiences. I know that that’s emotional labor but it’s helpful and impactful to understand the thought process behind your baby, the Multicultural Center. On the subject of culture you talked about the different types of cultures that we serve at UTD. Why is it important for us as individuals to understand cultures different from ours?

[Arthur] You know, when you know more about people it’s easier to work with them, it’s easier to cohabitate with them, it’s easier to share with them. And so, you know, I’ve heard students talk a lot about, well, you know, UTD has a lot of group projects and you know I’m not real big on group projects. And so we when we peel away the onion, the layers of the onion, we find out it is– it’s not that they don’t want to be in groups and do group project work, it’s just that they don’t know the people in the group. And so the more we spend time getting to know each other the more we know the things that make us tick, the easier it is for us to understand why people do certain things. It’s like learning people’s love language. It’s like, you know, what do they appreciate. So I, I really take learning about culture– I mean I used to really– I was not real big on this whole concept of the, the melting pot because in a melting pot it melts down to one thing. It just takes– it seems like it takes all the flavor out and it just melts down to one thing. But I love, you know, the salad analogy or the gumbo. It takes different kinds of flavors to make this rich and whether it’s gumbo — you could tell I’m hungry — or whether it’s a really good salad, I mean if it was just a salad with just lettuce some people would love that but it’s not really a salad — it’s just lettuce. So let’s, let’s go with a real full robust salad with lots of things that you like and then some things that you’ve never tried that, you know, you say that really doesn’t go in the salad but I’ll try it and then you’re like, wow, how have I lived without this in my salad for so long?

[Danyelle] That’s a good analogy. I never thought about the melting pot being so limited before.

[Arthur] Yeah, melting pot you try to melt it down to one item, to one thing. We’re not made to be like that. We are made to really flourish and to be who we are and not to be just one monolithic thing. So I’m a big salad and gumbo person as you can tell. Those are so rich and, and it gives us an opportunity to try things that we may not have tried or thought about trying before.

[Danyelle] Yeah! And so on that same topic of trying to understand other people’s cultures, are there any do’s and don’ts that folks need to know before they show up to a cultural event that’s outside of their own culture?

[Arthur] Hmm, do’s and don’ts. Let me start with the don’ts. And these are just Arthur’s don’ts, um but these are things that I would, I would share and because I want to think about myself personally, not to culturally appropriate. Meaning don’t show up and say if you’re coming to a black history month event, don’t show up in this dashiki and your hair cornrowed. If you just to say well this is what they do so I want to, I want to be a part, I want to show that I’m down. Or a do-rag or a bonnet. You know you don’t have to wear that to be down. Just be you. I would say don’t joke or make fun of things that you don’t understand, especially when it comes to things like food or traditions. It may seem a little weird, may seem a little funny, but it is a tradition and it is, it’s something that’s sacred to some people. I would also think about not coming to drive the bus, but be a passenger. And when I use that term I think about it seems like it’s easy for people from different cultures to come in and want to show the culture how it should be done. In doing that it’s almost like, well I’m going to take over and I’m going to lead, I’m going to show you people how you should be doing your event. Come in and be a passenger. And so that leads us to the do’s. What do you do? You come with an open mind. You come being your authentic self in whichever state that’s in. You come wanting to be amazed by people. You come with a sensitive sense of self and you come with an inquisitive mind and thinking about how do you phrase questions. Think about what you’re going to ask, think about the question, think about how you want to ask it, and then think about yourself. If there’s something about you and you know it about you, think about how you would want somebody to approach you about that. Being a Black man who grew up with sisters and a mom who were hair fanatics, hair was always done. I would– it still is. For someone who they don’t know to just walk up and touch their hair? That’s very, very insulting. Even, even if the person is not meaning uh anything. They just want to you know, just come touch. So one of my sisters always says, you know, and she tells, she would tell her brothers this, if you want to touch my hair just ask and we’ll have a discussion about it. Because now I’m curious to want to know why you want to touch my hair. Thinking about, about yourself and how you would want someone to approach you. You know people used to say the golden rule — treat others as you would like to be treated — and I think that’s a great philosophy, but I think we should really think about treating others as they want to be treated.

[Danyelle] Yeah and there’s conversation involved in that. Instead of just assuming.

[Arthur] Yeah, it is.

[Danyelle] I physically recoiled when you mentioned touching a Black woman’s hair because I was like, I hate when people touch my hair unprovoked. And yeah, you know, for somebody who’s maybe not Black they don’t, they don’t mind someone touching their hair so they assume that Black folk don’t mind having their hair touched without ever starting the conversation around whether or not it’s acceptable, whether or not it’s okay. Do you feel comfortable with this? You know, do I have your consent?

[Arthur] Right.

[Danyelle] Yeah, you’re right. There, there– you’ve made me realize there’s limitations to rules that we’ve been taught about, you know, the golden rule or that our country is a melting pot and not seeing some of the limitations in those things growing up. Now I, now I see them. You have opened my eyes.

[Arthur] Wow. Well that, I’m, I’m glad. I’m so glad. You know this conversation is really good for me. It just kind of takes me back and reminds me, you know, working remotely is great but it’s nothing like being and having these kind, these types of conversations. Another thing, I just wanted to share another example. I try not to generalize and I will say not all people do this and I would say not all white people, but one of my experiences has been is that when I meet people they tend to want to change my name. My name is Arthur. They tend to want to say Art or they want to call me Artie or they want to call me some part of my name. And I’m, I’m like we’re not cool like that. You know my name is Arthur. Or they’ll say, oh your name is Arthur — I’m gonna, do you mind if i call you Art? Yes, I do, because Art is reserved for a different group of people. I have friends who call me Art but I’ve given them that permission. When I’m looking at someone’s name, if I don’t know how to pronounce it I will ask. So in respect of you I want to pronounce your name correctly, so please help me or educate me on how to pronounce your name. Those are some do’s and I think we like the whole thing of I’m just going to go for it and then ask, you know, forgiveness later and oftentimes that will turn people off.

[Danyelle] So on the subject of being better allies to people who are not like us, you know, in light of a lot of recent national and global events there have been a lot of conversations about this type of allyship, of understanding people who are outside of the intersections that you may have yourself. And how can UTD students — specifically white students — be better allies to folks who aren’t members of their cultural community? And I know obviously you and I can only speak to the Black experience, but you’ve been involved in a lot of other cultures that a lot of us haven’t been. So what are what are some ways that white folks can show up to the conversation, be better allies and work really hard to not, like you said, turn people off on the front end?

[Arthur] Good question, good, good you asked. You had some really good questions. The first thing that comes to mind is, come to the table wanting to be an ally and not thinking you have to be an ally. I think people feel that, oh my god, this movement, I have to be an ally and so I have to do these things. No, you don’t have to, but if you want to, come willing and wanting to be at the table. I think that’s the one of the first things to do, is want to be there. It’s not a fad, it’s not a movement, it’s a way of life. It’s, it’s consistency. Oftentimes I think about the fact that we want to fix before we know what the problem is. I always tell the story about a friend of mine. She was always late, always late. So we were going somewhere so she called and she goes, I have a flat tire. And before she could get anything else I went into this whole man fix-it mode and, you know, oh have you called AAA. have you done this? You know we’ve talked about you needed new tires. And so she let me get it all out and finally she goes, I didn’t call you to fix my problem, I called you to let you know that I was going to be late. I’ve already changed my tire. And so we oftentimes want to be in a fix-it mode and not a listen mode. And so I would say for allyship, be prepared to do a lot of listening. Be open to listen. Listen to understand, not to respond. Understanding the difference between sympathy and empathy — I think often times we get them confused and even in empathy then we want to share this story, well, you know, this is what happened to my Black friend. This is what happened to me. And then the conversation of whatever the allyship becomes about you and not about them. And so really understanding that the allyship — it’s a partnership but you need to understand who you’re an ally for and why. What’s the fight, what’s the movement, what’s the motion, what are we doing. But most of all I would then to come and understand that you have to be brave and that you have to have some tough conversations and some of those tough conversations are with self, with friends. Some of those tough conversations are with family. When I say family, relatives with different generations. And then you have to deal with your own stuff — your own biases, your own stereotypes, your own experiences. Once you do all of that kind of work that sets you on the the road to true allyship.

[Danyelle] And have you gotten any feedback from students who have stepped outside of their comfort zones as far as community or culture and stepped up to the plate of being allies? And, you know, what what have some of their experiences been with this committing to allyship and showing up in the correct way?

[Arthur] Some of the experiences have been very positive in the sense of saying, wow I’ve got work to do, or I better understand why we have work to do. Some of them on the positive side have been — I have to change some of the things that I do first and maybe I’m not ready to be an ally or an ally at that level yet, but I’m on the right track to becoming an ally. I think some of the negative is that some people aren’t — because of past historical things — they’re not sure about allies who are different from them. And so although you may run into one negative experience in your journey and allyship, it doesn’t mean that the rest of your journey is going to be like that. I’ve seen people say, well, you know, yeah I kind of got knocked down. I went to this meeting and I wanted to to be there to be in support and I just felt dumped on. I just felt like, you know, I got really knocked down and I’m like, hey I’m here to help. Maybe that wasn’t the meeting for you. It doesn’t mean stop. Continue to do the work to become an ally and really understand some of the experience may be positive, some may be negative, but if you’re an ally you’re going to be in it for the long haul. You know, I think in light of everything that’s happening I feel this movement and movements have always been led by, by young people and I say young people, I mean people who are in college, people who were working in a trade. But they were people who were who were fairly young and that’s what we have to have. But we have to continue to work together. We have to have true allyship. You talked about emotional labor. For many people of color — in particular African Americans right now — they, we are emotionally tired. I can’t do the homework for you. You have to do your own homework. You have to be out there trying to learn and understand. Sometimes I’m just too tired to talk. Sometimes I’m too frustrated. Sometimes I don’t have the right words. I don’t even have the words. But you– we’ve got to do this together and if any group can make this happen, if any group can move us forward, it’s the group that we have now. It’s those individuals who are on the front lines who are all diverse in so many more ways than we can even think about diversity and this is what’s going to have to move us forward. We have got to work together and working together means we have to support everybody. And when I say everybody let me clarify that. People talked about the Black Lives Matters movement and oftentimes it gets lumped into or it gets publicized as this — the deaths of Black men. Granted, that’s horrible. That hurts me because that, that could be me, my nephew, my brother, my family member. But Black Lives Matters includes Black women, Black trans women, it’s everybody. And we have to see that. We can’t just think about the movement from the perspective of police brutality. We have to think about the movement of the system. And if you move the system, everything within the system will typically work. It’s like a dam. We can pull out a little peg and a little water will come through but you still have a dam. It’s not until you tear the dam down and let the water rush through and the dam is the system. We’ve got to regroup our system and once we regroup our system it becomes a new playing field. We’ve got to work together. We’ve got to– Students on campus utilize our services — not just those in ODCE but think about the Military Veterans Center, think about the Office of Student AccessAbility. Think about some of the other services that you don’t hear a lot about. We’ve got to learn about that. We’ve got to understand and we’ve got to lobby and find out what your area is, where you are to be an ally. And so that’s what I want to add. We, we can do this thing. I think if anything this whole pandemic has done has really kind of set us down, slowed us down to really think about what matters and at the end of the day what matters is that we’re all treated as equal human beings.

[Danyelle] Thank you so much, again, for talking to us and sharing your personal experiences and doing this emotional labor of showing up though you might be exhausted and though you might be frustrated. It really means a lot and I’m so glad that we got to have this chat and I hope that we have, get to have others at some point but I’m so glad that we got to have this chat.

[Arthur] I’m looking forward to it. I really really am. And something just popped in my head, of course. So I really, I really want to leave you with this. There’s an African proverb and it says, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. We have so far to go.

[Danyelle] Thanks again to Arthur for chatting with us. Check out our show notes for links to the Multicultural Center and other campus resources. Hey, Comets. Just wanted to let y’all know our show is taking a short hiatus for the winter holiday break. We recorded some amazing episodes this semester and they’re going to be released in the spring. So stay tuned and stay safe. And if y’all could do your fellow Comets a favor by rating and reviewing our show on whichever podcasting platform you use, it would be so, so appreciated. Thanks for joining us. Comets Discuss is brought to you by the UT Dallas Office of Communications. A special thanks to senior lecturer Roxanne Minnish for our music. Be sure to check out our other shows at utdallas.edu/cometcast. For the most up-to-date news at UT Dallas, visit the university’s News Center page at utdallas.edu/news. Take care of yourselves, Comets.